Site by: Real Le Goueff DG1000 vs Duo Discus This site is devoted to comparing both the DG 1000 & the Duo Discus, for those of you out there who are interested in knowing the pros and the cons of these 2 super gliders.  Warning:   The information available in this site is subjective, consequent to my own flying experience and my personal taste. Someone else, after flying both of these machines, could come to different conclusions.    Also have a look at my other Websites: Motor gliders: www.trb.8m.com Discus cs: www.aerosport.8m.com  Discus 2 T: www.d2t.8m.com Ridge Soaring: www.rdg.8m.com Lake Placid: www.lkp.8m.com St. Auban: www.stauban.8m.com Duo Discsu T: www.ddtr.8m.com

Flying these gliders: 

I had the chance to try back to back the Duo and the DG1000 in March 2005. I have flown in the past the Duo a few time, but was only able to fly the DG1000 for the first time in 2005. Both gliders, the Duo and the DG1000 where flown out of St auban in one of my triops to St Auban. My flight in the Duo was the second to last and the one in the DG was my last one in March 2005 out of St Auban. 

Since I had great interest in two seaters, I was eager to have the chance to try the DG1000 while I was in St auban. I had ask for the 1000 a few times, but due to the fact that they where missing one of there aerobatic gliders, it was temporally used for aerobatic in it’s 18 m version, along with the Fox. Therefore it was not possible to try it more often. Fortunately it was finally available on the last day of my stay. 

My basis of comparison is limited by my experience in the 2 seaters: Some previous flights in the Duo, a few flights in open class (ASH25, Nimbus 4D) and in other class like the Janus C&B, the Twin astir and Twin II. Not to mention club like glider: Blanik L13 and L23 and the Krosno....

 

 Aerobatic qualities of these gliders:  

There is nothing to say for the Duo because it’s not aerobatic.

 

About the DG1000, the impression of the acrobatic pilots (training in St Auban) was that the DG1000 is no match against there usual 2 aerobatic gliders (the Fox and the Swift) to which they are accustom in St Auban. Never the less it is good enough to use as a substitut. 

 

Let’s not forget on the other hand, that the Fox or the Swift are in turn absolutely no match against the DG1000 for soaring, climbing and L/D. It is best to say that the DG1000 is a super 20m glider with the possibility to do full aerobatics in it’s18m version. This could be considered as a plus for club interested in a super ship for x-country (20m) with aerobatic possibilities (18m).

 

Just looking at the Swith vs the DG from the ground up, it was pretty obvious that the DG was not as precise and manoeuvring much slowlyer than the Swift in aerobatics. But then against the DG has aerobatic capabilities without being an aerobatic glider! Despite this the DG appeared to be able to do a lot of aerobatic figures.

 

The Benchmark

 

My experience at that time with the Duo Discus was limited to about 10 flights, most of them in St Auban. In all the 2 seaters I had flow in the past, open class & others, The Duo was my preferred one and became the benchmark to whish I would compare all new ones. It offered me the best compromise. It has great visibility and is relatively easy to maneuver and prety quik to respond to control inputs. Also the control forces are very low compared to other 2 seaters. 

 

In simple words I felt at home in the Duo as oposed to the Open class gliders where I had to work a lot to stay in a thermal. In fact when ever I was offered the choice between open class (nimbus4 or ASH 25) or the Duo, I would alway take the Duo! My main problem the first few time a flew the Duo was that I had a bit of a problem to precisely control the speed. Instructors in St Auban told me that this was normal for all beginers on the Duo. After a few flights this was not a problem anymore.

My flight of the DG1000 was on a nice day with a northerly wind which created ridge condition on the Lure Mountain, west of St Auban. The flight lasted for 2:20h after which we had to come down to have another pilot fly it. In this flight we did some ridge and some thermal flying. 

Prior to flying both of these aircraft I had gatherers some information in a few articles that I read in the French magazine and in SSA magazine. I would say that I agree on many points but I am not so sure about other facts. Therefore it is best to read from various sources and draw your own conclusions. Some of these articles are on the (Independant evaluation) page of this site and are a Courtesy of The Soaring Society of America.

 

To help out I have made a chart of all the details that I evaluated (in as much as I can say). This is on the second page of this site.

Performance of the Duo: 

One thing I think that I know about the performance of the Duo, is that at the end of a flight this march 2005 in St Auban, I was flying the Discus 2 on my way back from the Pick de Bure mountain. I was stranded about 40k away with little lift to bring me home. I was contemplating an out landing in the Durance river valley. The best scenario would get me to the Sisteron gliding club, strait north of St Auban. At some point I met one of St Auban Duo Discus also trying to get back. I contacted this instructor and said that I was going to follow him. I started about 100feet higher and despite staying in his six, after a while I ended up about 50 feet lower. Thus I know that at slow speed the Duo out perform the Discus 2. I still landed out in Sisteron!

 

But don’t make me say what I did not say. I am just talking of max glide speed here. Conversely I can also say that with my own Discsu2 T,  I was in a cloud street last year (2004) in Pennsylvania, I joined in about 0.5km behind 4 gliders: an Asw20, Dg600 18m, LS8 18m and a Janus. The cloud was pumping very well, I was flying at about 100kst and sometime I got a bit of airbrake out to avoid being sucked in the cloud.  I passed all of them while staying at the same altitude, and as oposed to some of the others, I had no water on board! (but the turbo engine equals about 35kg of ballast) It is at high speed that the Discsu2 is particularly fabulous. That’s also what some members of the French gliding team told me.

 

Shepp-Hirth:   http://www.schempp-hirth.com/index.php?id=62&L=1

Performance of the DG 

I did not race against anyone so noting to say here except to look at the account made by DG when they compared the Duo and the DG1000 on there website.

 

DG1000 info:  http://www.dgflugzeugbau.de/inh-dg1000-e.html

                       http://www.dg-flugzeugbau.de/dg1000-entwicklung-e.html

DG1000 vs Duo Discus: http://www.dg-flugzeugbau.de/dg1000-derek-piggott-e.html

                                      http://www.glidingmagazine.com/ListFeatureArticleDtl.asp?id=371

 

Conclusion: 

Flying these two fabulous gliders did help me enormously to know which one I like best. I now have a very clear preference. I will not mention which one I prefer because I judge these gliders according to my personal needs, my style of flying and details that are important to me.  All these factors involving a choice are different from one pilot to another. Thus my goal is not to influence with my personal opinion, but rather to give information as objectively as possible and help other to draw there own conclusions by adding the informations from my experience to other knowledge they may have or will get in there quest for informations. One thing I can certainly say is that buying any of these (the Duo or the DG1000) is a good choice. There appears to be no major draw back in anyone of these, the rest is personal taste or needs. Also take into account that gliders do evolve and manufacturers improve there gliders with time and these improvements can influence one’s choice! 

The very best recommendation I could give to anyone would be to try for themselves these 2 fabulous gliders. One can arrange test flights of the DG 1000 by contacting DG. To my knowledge there is a club in Fl (Seminol Lake) USA that also has one or 2 DG1000. For the Duo one can try it in various places in the states. In the west (Minden NV) or the east (Ridge Soaring PN) and probaly many other places, not to mention St Auban where one can fly both of them.

 

The Duo Discus X

 

Please note that in spring  of 2005 Shempp-Hirth got out a new Duo Discsu (The DuoDiscsu X) which adresses somme of the draw backs of the Standard Duo Discus.  Namely the higher landing gear, the addition of winglets, retractable landing gear from the back seat and a new air brake type coupled with a flap and a higher wingload. Then later they got the Duo Discus XL with a ±10cm longer fuselage which translate in a biger cockpit for the front and back seat, look at there web site for more info on this new member of the S-H family.

Duo info: http://www.schempp-hirth.com/index.php?id=62&L=1

pictures: http://www.schempp-hirth.com/index.php?id=113&L=1

 

The DuoDiscus